With a wet system do you still need to retune

[OsO]

To clarify what im asking, If you have a well balanced wet system is there any reason to modify timing and such? If there is please explain.

[blakern]

we pulled 3" of timing outta my car for the 100shot. i ran it all this year with that being the only change to my tune, i wouldnt recommend that. kept running rich, and didnt make near the power it could. my advice, strap it to a dyno and get everything spot on. i know i will once the motors back in.

[Satan's Camaro]

You're still going to need to pull timing. The addition of nitrous makes the reaction burn faster.

To make peak power, you want the highest pressure in the cylinder just after top dead center for the piston. As you burn fuel (with air as an oxidizer) it takes a short amount of time to cause a higher pressure (from gasseous expansion caused by burning). Since nitrous adds more oxygen and is a better oxidizer, it causes a faster burn. If this faster burn causes the peak pressure to happen before the piston is at top dead center, you can and most likely will break things, namely the crank or connecting rods. You pull timing to start the burn closer to top dead center so that you will have peak cylinder pressure just after top dead center where the most power will be created, and nothing will break.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you need more info or details.

[OsO]

Edit third post answered it.

[OsO]

Originally Posted by Satan's Camaro

You're still going to need to pull timing. The addition of nitrous makes the reaction burn faster.

To make peak power, you want the highest pressure in the cylinder just after top dead center for the piston. As you burn fuel (with air as an oxidizer) it takes a short amount of time to cause a higher pressure (from gasseous expansion caused by burning). Since nitrous adds more oxygen and is a better oxidizer, it causes a faster burn. If this faster burn causes the peak pressure to happen before the piston is at top dead center, you can and most likely will break things, namely the crank or connecting rods. You pull timing to start the burn closer to top dead center so that you will have peak cylinder pressure just after top dead center where the most power will be created, and nothing will break.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you need more info or details.

That helps. I take it the tuning process will be starting off with a small shot first and working my way up?

[Nitro Dave]

Timing, Spark plug choice, fuel octain and airfuel are critical with any power adder.

I always suggest working up your way in the tune up gradually. I will be more than happy to advise you through the tuning process.
Dave

[OsO]

Originally Posted by Nitro Dave

Timing, Spark plug choice, fuel octain and airfuel are critical with any power adder.

I always suggest working up your way in the tune up gradually. I will be more than happy to advise you through the tuning process.
Dave

Appreciate it, it will still be a few weeks before he motor is done apparently (insert profanity here). I most likely will be running 105 at a minimum i was running 111 leaded but it was killing my 02s to quick couldn't even get a few miles on them. Still have 40 gallons of 111 been using it in my pressure washer

It sounds and this worries me like i am going to have to give up a significant amount of N/a power if i want to spray it????????????

[blakern]

yeah it suxs that theres not more choices for unleaded high octane fuel. No one in my area even sells any, i can special order a 55gal drum of 100, but I just run 93 pump for now.

[OsO]

Originally Posted by blakern

yeah it suxs that theres not more choices for unleaded high octane fuel. No one in my area even sells any, i can special order a 55gal drum of 100, but I just run 93 pump for now.

Hell i only started running the 111 due to lack of tuning audible detonation is not the prettiest thing to hear on a new motor.

[Satan's Camaro]

There are devices designed to pull timing only when you are spraying. I can't recall what works on the dodge vehicles, but there are ways of doing it. So, no need to lose power when not spraying.

[OsO]

Originally Posted by Satan's Camaro

There are devices designed to pull timing only when you are spraying. I can't recall what works on the dodge vehicles, but there are ways of doing it. So, no need to lose power when not spraying.

Guess the knock sensors wouldn't kick in soon enough if there was a problem?

[boogeyman]

the knock sensors usually dont react quickly enuf to catch smal amounts of detonation and when they d they pull out tons of timing suddenly. the best way to do it is to use seomthing that pulls timing when the system is activated, i use a start retart ox from msd but i have a carbed car. for your truck im pretty sure msd makes a timing box possibly called the timing twister ??? but u would have to check that

[Nitro Dave]

What compression is your motor and what type of power are you making?

The timing twister works with the dodge.. Alot of the dodge guys are using the diablo sport tunners these days as well. Diablo can provide you with another tune that has the timing removed for the spray.
Dave

[OsO]

Originally Posted by Nitro Dave

What compression is your motor and what type of power are you making?

The timing twister works with the dodge.. Alot of the dodge guys are using the diablo sport tunners these days as well. Diablo can provide you with another tune that has the timing removed for the spray.
Dave

This motor will be 12.5:1 motor is being assembled this week last motor was 11:1 and only put down 400 on A.R.Ts dyno. The only one that has been abel to tune the truck is Dave @ B&G. I have the Diablo and (2)SCTs AND TWO PCMS. One thing i dont want to do is have to swap tunes hell i can even get one good tune.

As for dyno numbers I have ran 4 different trucks that dynoed more power than me on the same dyno same day and beat them by lengths and the weight and et calculations never come close to 400

[Nitro Dave]

With the right tune the 105 unleaded should be fine. Not sure why they cant seem to get the truck tuned right. With the Nitrous Spark plug choice is going to be important. Since your motor is going to have compression odds are you need a step or two colder for just the motor natuarlay asperated. Reading the spark plugs after a clean pull will varify this.

You will need an even colder plug on the juice. It needs to be a non pertruded spark plug. Heat range will depent on how much you are spraying. For drivability reasons I suggest tuning the truck N/A on the cold nitrous plugs. If the tune is right you can drive around on those plugs with no issue.

YOu will need to pull timing on the nitrous. If you are spraying a large shot. For example a 300 shot you would need to start off pulling some where around 14 to 16 degrees on the nitrous. Again reading the spark plugs will tell you where you need to be. Trying to drive around N/A with that much timing pulled the truck will run horrible and foul plugs. For this reason you need to find the happy medium.

Does the MSD Timing twister work with your truck? If so that would give you the ability to pull timming when the system is activated.

The Nitrous systems airfuel will be adjusted by changing out the fuel jet. I dont understand why your set up would be so complicated to tune...

Dave

[OsO]

Originally Posted by Nitro Dave

With the right tune the 105 unleaded should be fine. Not sure why they cant seem to get the truck tuned right. With the Nitrous Spark plug choice is going to be important. Since your motor is going to have compression odds are you need a step or two colder for just the motor natuarlay asperated. Reading the spark plugs after a clean pull will varify this.

You will need an even colder plug on the juice. It needs to be a non pertruded spark plug. Heat range will depent on how much you are spraying. For drivability reasons I suggest tuning the truck N/A on the cold nitrous plugs. If the tune is right you can drive around on those plugs with no issue.

YOu will need to pull timing on the nitrous. If you are spraying a large shot. For example a 300 shot you would need to start off pulling some where around 14 to 16 degrees on the nitrous. Again reading the spark plugs will tell you where you need to be. Trying to drive around N/A with that much timing pulled the truck will run horrible and foul plugs. For this reason you need to find the happy medium.

Does the MSD Timing twister work with your truck? If so that would give you the ability to pull timming when the system is activated.

The Nitrous systems airfuel will be adjusted by changing out the fuel jet. I dont understand why your set up would be so complicated to tune...

Dave

As for tuning complications i have no idea why other than tuning for the Dodge truck is new compared to other main stream performance vehicles.

Ok im defiantly not liking the whole detune to spray so what would be the max size shot i could spray on a motor tuned to run N/A and not hurt the motor??????

[boogeyman]

if ur motor is built and u have eerything right u shold be ale to put 100-150 to it and not hurt anything IMO if u get the timing retard box u wont have to detune the truck at all the box will pull th timing out and u can run around on a strong n/a tuna and when u want to spray it just arm the kit and let it eat w whatever amout u want. thats the way the viper i just did a kit on is setup

[OsO]

Originally Posted by boogeyman

if ur motor is built and u have eerything right u shold be ale to put 100-150 to it and not hurt anything IMO if u get the timing retard box u wont have to detune the truck at all the box will pull th timing out and u can run around on a strong n/a tuna and when u want to spray it just arm the kit and let it eat w whatever amout u want. thats the way the viper i just did a kit on is setup

I will have to look into the TT and see if it will work.

[boogeyman]

it doesnt have to be that box but there are a number of different things that will pull timing out only when u spray it so i can have ur high hp tune while buzzing around and when u kick the spray on u can hit it with 300 and not have to worry about ur new motor going boom and being very sad lol

[MoeHorsePower]

NEVER rely on the knock sensors to "Pull" timing for power adders, by this time it is usually too late, especially on a large shot...